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Coffees & Content | Marketing, Social Media & Digital Strategy Podcast
Coffees & Content | What's Actually Working in Marketing Right Now
If you want straight-to-the-point marketing insights you can actually use, you're in the right place.
Hosted by Loren Tomlinson, founder of The Social Collective, international speaker, and social media strategist. Loren and her team run marketing every week for service businesses across NZ and Australia. The ads, the content, the email, all of it. This podcast is where they report back.
Coffees & Content covers what's working right now, what's changed, and what they'd do differently, straight from inside the accounts. Expect real talk on the digital space, the strategies delivering results this week, and honest conversations about what it actually takes to make marketing perform.
No fluff. No textbook advice. Just the stuff that matters, from people doing the job in real time.
Grab a coffee, hit play, and let's get into it.
🎙️ Presented by The Social Collective. Follow & connect: @loren.thesocialcollective
Coffees & Content | Marketing, Social Media & Digital Strategy Podcast
Your Competitors Can Copy Everything ... Except This with Britt Austin
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Your competitors can copy your product, your pricing, your website and your content. There's one thing they'll never be able to copy, and most small businesses aren't using it.
This week I'm joined by Britt Austin, founder of State of Brand. Britt has spent 18 years building brands at Chobani, EA Sports, Apple, Rebel, Puma and Who Is Elijah. She's launched a yoghurt brand from the back of a fridge van, helped drive Puma's running comeback, and now helps founders build brands people obsess over.
In this episode we cover:
- The one thing your competitors can't copy, and how to use it
- Why your brand is what your customer thinks, not what you think
- The one-sentence test every brand and founder needs to pass
- The step most businesses skip, and why it leaves them guessing
- Why one spray of perfume beats ten ads
- Why reach from trends is rented, not earned
- Why Britt would choose a creator with 500 followers over one with 500,000
- Your homework for this week
If your brand feels like it blends in with everyone else's, this one's for you.
Find Britt:
- Britt on IG: https://www.instagram.com/brittaustin/
- State of Brand on IG: https://www.instagram.com/stateofbrand.co/
- https://www.statesofbrand.com/
Have a question? Click here to send it to me!
Links:
- Follow on Instagram: @loren.thesocialcollective
- Find Loren on LinkedIn: Loren Tomlinson
- Visit us at: www.thesocialcollective.co.nz
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Grab that morning cup of coffee, turn off those headphones, and let's talk marketing. This is the podcast where we get into the strategy, the numbers, and the conversations shaping the industry behind the scenes. Brought to you by the Social Collective. This is Coffees and Content. Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of the Coffees and Content Podcast. I have an amazing episode for you today with someone who I'm very, very excited for you all to hear from. Today we're going to be talking all around building a brand. We're going to touch a little bit on personal, a little bit on business, what it means to really have a brand, and what that means beyond just having posts go out into the ether in the social media space. So I have the incredible Brit Austin with me who runs a company called States of Brand. Britt has previously worked at brands like Puma, who is Elijah, and so many more brands. And I am so excited to have you on the podcast. So thank you so much for joining us.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. I'm excited.
SPEAKER_00I feel like it's a really good opportunity for people to get to know you, I think, before we get started and to hear a little bit about your background because you've had an insane background with all of the different jobs that you've done and the kinds of industries that you've worked with. For those that are tuning into the podcast today that may not have met you before, can you tell them a little bit about yourself and what your background consists of?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I've been doing marketing now for 18 years. That's not to a timeline of my age, but quite a while now. Um, most recently I was at Who Is Elijah, so head of brand and marketing there. It's an Australian fragrance brand. Um before Who is Elijah? I was at Puma. So it was um looking after brand marketing there across the running and training category specifically. Before Rebel, before Puma, I was at Rebel. Um, and that was looking after performance sports marketing. So that covered everything in this performance sports space. So if you think of like football, AFL, NRL, soccer, basketball, running every sports category with every brand, plus also Rebel's brand marketing as well. So it was quite a beast of a role, but also being exposed to all those global brands and what their marketing strategies were and how they showed up, but then also the Rebel brand and how we maintained our Rebel brand positioning and not getting diluted with all the brand partners. Before Rebel, I was at Apple, and that was just like a whirlwind of a beast of a place to work, but probably learnt the most out of any company that I've worked at. At Apple, originally I was brought on to manage the partnerships with all of the telcos, so working with like Optus and Telstra, Vodafone, and how they represented Apple in store. And then I started looking after on top of that, my role evolved into looking after the App Store marketing, which was probably more what I found enjoyable. So it was launching, like I launched Chris Hemsworth App Center. I worked with Keep It Cleaner and like Sweat, all those fun sport apps. Um I got to launch them into Australia and New Zealand and then teach all developers about how to market and shop up on the app store. Before Apple, I was at Electronic Arts. So that is EA Sports. So I won't do the EA sports in the game sound. That's how everyone remembers it. But that was like, I remember when that job popped up and I was like, oh, I'm not like qualified enough for this. It was a very much a male-dominant industry. I was applying for a job on FIFA. I spoke to my twin brother, he's a professional soccer player, and he basically taught me the video game in a nutshell. And somehow I went in, did these presentations, landed the job, and I looked after FIFA and FIFA Ultimate Team across APAC and Middle East Africa. And that was like another beast and whirlwind. I actually would have thought I'd be there forever. But then when Apple came knocking, you kind of no, you don't say net Apple. Exactly. So I'm like, oh, it's a good change of pace, but EA was so fun, like as a football person myself, and just like working in football every single day. Like it didn't feel like a job, but I've made some of my closest friends from there. And then before EA, I was at Chibani, which is kind of where my marketing career started. I launched Chibani into Australia with an incredible team. And Chibani was just like this new protein yogurt that disrupted the market. It had its very authentically strained yogurt that almost like people that were not lactose intolerant, but if they were sensitive to do, they could have it. And we had a very unique way of marketing. We didn't invest in any paid media or anything for the first couple of years for launching Chibani. Everything was about sampling and getting on the streets and getting the product in front of consumers. And so that's kind of how it started. I guess I went to a uni, did a marketing degree, did all that stuff, did a few little internships, worked in a sports agency to do like sports management. And like I spent every day reviewing NRL contracts. And that's kind of where the marketing career started. And here I am. I launched Ada Brand like four months ago, decided it was time just to do my own thing. I've worked with so many brands and like not to sound like egotistic, but I did have like brands reaching out if you ever wanted a job or like to work with them. And I was like, why don't you work with everyone and just take the leap? And I leapt from here I am.
SPEAKER_00That's so exciting. And what an insane like CV that you have with all the different experiences. Sounds like it. It sounds like it was just go, go, go from brand to brand to brand. That's incredible.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and they were all like really good brands. Nothing was traditional. They waited. It all kind of just happened organically from like word of mouth and networking and just speaking to people. And like I was always very vocal about sharing marketing learnings along the way and just got lucky to work with like such amazing companies.
SPEAKER_00So epic. And yeah, like you said, it's all brands that are doing things very differently to what everyone else is doing. They're not necessarily following the status quo and trying to kind of fit into some mold that another brand has created for them. They're all really innovative in their own ways. And I think I would really love to know as well from you, like when someone says brand, because I feel like there's probably some people that are going to tune into this podcast that are like, what does brand mean? What does it even mean to have a brand? When someone says the word brand to you, what does it mean to you? And how would you describe it?
SPEAKER_01There's so many ways that people look at brand and marketing. I see these job titles of people like head of marketing and they're not really doing any marketing or they're head of brand and they're doing performance. Like it's quite messy for me. If someone says brand, it's like what someone says about your brand and what they believe. So you might have your own view of what your brand is, but at the end of the day, your brand is what a customer thinks of your brand. And everyone has a brand because everyone has a perception of your business. So it's what that perception is. And I guess businesses can either mould that perception or they can just leave it up to the customer to make a decision, which is very risky, wouldn't recommend. And that's what brand is. It's coming up with that brand strategy of what you want someone to say when they see your brand. That's more than a logo. It's more about, I guess, when they meet your brand, when they connect with your brand, where is your consumer finding you? Is it in a store? Is it an experience? Is it like a service? Like where are they actually meeting the brand? And that just that there is the decision that they make about you. But everything that you do beforehand is forming that decision about who your brand is. So it's important to, I guess, clearly define what that message is and what you want them to perceive of your brand because you might think something and they might think something else. And it's a completely different experience, what they're getting.
SPEAKER_00Pin down what it does mean to have a brand. And if someone's sitting there thinking, okay, well, whether it's for personal or it's for business, I need to figure out exactly how I would explain what my brand is and kind of pinpoint this is who we are and this is what we represent. What would you say to someone who's trying to kind of figure it out? They maybe have been running a business for a while, but they're not really sure exactly how to explain what their brand is. How how could people kind of figure what figure out what that looks like?
SPEAKER_01If you don't know how to figure it out, your customer's not going to know how to figure it out. So you need to be able to say in one sentence what your brand is. For example, I do brand marketing, but I can do every form of marketing. I can work across social, performance, out of home, everything experiential, but I focus on brand marketing. And naturally, when I speak to people, it can evolve into other areas. But you need to be able to say what your brand is in that one sentence. And if you don't know what that is, that's when you sit down and you look at, okay, what do I offer? What service do I offer? What is my product? What do I want that outcome to be? And like only you can decide on that of what your product is. But if you don't know that answer, your customer's not going to know it. And you're not going to get anywhere with it if you don't know it. So until you have that, that's what you need to work on. And that's where like I come in to help with branding, but I'm not going to tell you what your brand is or what it should stand for or anything. I'll help you form a strategy from it, but I will help you ask the right questions to, I guess, work out what the answer to that is.
SPEAKER_00I think that is so important because it's so often that I will meet someone who is like, Can you tell me what my brand is? And can if I work with you guys, can you help me figure out what that is? And I say the same thing. It's like, no, you have to figure it out because at the end of the day, we're not the ones running the businesses. That's their job. And they've obviously created the business for a reason, but everybody has like a different idea of what their brand is. And it's the same with that saying of when you're speaking to everyone, you're speaking to no one. And it's I think people have such a scarcity mindset of but if I dilute it so much, I'm only going to end up speaking to like a small group of people. Have you ever had anyone that sort of said that to you? And how how do you kind of approach that conversation?
SPEAKER_01Every single day. And I guess it depends where you're at. Like if you're a global brand like a Pima or an Apple, you can go broader and do those big brand moments. But if you are starting out small, you have to start niche because you can't be everything to everyone. And then you will evolve. But you have to clarify what that message is and who it's for. Also, like if you're a luxury brand that's going out there and you're selling like a handbag, for example, but you want to be selling to the TADAS that wants a discount, they're not your customer. So if your niche is small, that's okay. It will eventually grow and evolve. But the luxury market of a handbag probably is quite small. Like we're not all going out there spending $10,000 on a bag. So their marketing is quite niche of who they're talking to. It still has that halo effect to everyone else. And if it is relevant to them, they will fall into it. But like you have to start niche or else you're just going to get nowhere.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. Where should somebody start when it comes to figuring out like what to invest in, whether it's time, whether it's money, energy, obviously, when it comes to building a brand.
SPEAKER_01It can depend brand to brand, but the first thing is you just have to know who your customer is. If you don't know who your customer is and you haven't done market research, then like you're gonna just swim in circles. The first thing that I always do for any brand is market research. It's the most boring thing for anyone to do, but if you don't do market research, everything is a guess. If you're working with a brand strategist and they haven't done market research, like that is a huge red flag to me. You have to do market research or else you're just guessing what it is. You need to know who your customer is, where to find your customer, and where they're showing up. Like I always say you need to know your customer better than they know themselves, and you have to spend the time in that. And that's where I would spend the first part of my time is understanding who my customer is, where are they, what resonates with them, what solution am I solving? And then that's when you start building from there.
SPEAKER_00I love that. And I think going back to what you were mentioning about Travani and obviously being on the street and handing out samples and things like that, that's obviously a really great way to get to know people and get to know your customers. What was the thought process behind that? Because obviously so many people I think in in today's day and age, they just go straight to social media. They're like, I have to put things on Instagram, I have to be on TikTok, I have to run ads. But that's obviously a, I guess, like considered nowadays more a traditional form of marketing. But I think it's as someone who comes from a background who also did a very similar thing. I think it's such an effective form of being able to connect with your customers and have those kinds of conversations. But what was the logic behind if you're like obviously you were launching Tibani into the Australian market? How did that decision all come about? And why did you guys decide that sampling was the way to go?
SPEAKER_01We decided that sampling was the way to go because you could do billboards advertising everything, saying, Oh, come try my delicious yogurt and you'll reach millions of people, but they're not necessarily going to convert and come in. Whereas our tactic was let people try and experience the product and they would love it and then they would buy it. People remember a brand from a direct experience more than an ad. And it's also breaking up what's currently in the market. Like every day we're serving ads, we're consuming content every day, but do something different that they unexpect, that they don't expect to happen in their day. And what we did with Chabani was we went very tactical. We hired like these full-time staff basically that would drive the Cho ban around the country. We'd have them in every state, and it was like a big fridge van full of we had to hit about 400 samples a day. And we would do things like Chibani charge. So we're meeting our customer, we were filling up office fridges in the city and going around to offices, filling up their fridge with cabani, going to football clubs, filling up their fridges with cabani. Naturally, people would start talking about it, they were sharing it online as well. So that helped with our but it was also people having a direct experience with the brand. Opening a fridge to this like full, colorful looking fridge full of yoga was also an experience. But we were also really tactical with the staff that we hired. We had people that, if you thought about Chibani, you would think of these people that were healthy, fit, they were young, they were dietitians, they were studying to be a dietitian, they were, you know, players and things like that that lived and breathed, breathed a healthy lifestyle. And they also knew everything about the brand. Having a dietitian, studying at least to be a dietitian, walk in and say one thing about the brand. They could talk about the protein content, they could talk about the sugar content that it wasn't added sugars. Basically, just lived Chibani and we were all such a close-knit team and we were all so passionate about it, and we would do rogue things. Like we would drive Chibani Ban onto Bundai Beach and hand out samples of Chibani. And the fine back then was like $500, but a permit's like $3,000. So it's like we'll just take the fine. Um, and we just showed up in unexpected places and just gave people such a positive experience with the brand. And because we were doing like 400 a day, and I'm not good at math, but if you do that every single day for 300 days throughout the year, yeah, it that affects compounds. Plus, you then have the social amplification that was happening organically online, and that just worked better for us. So it was like you experience it, it's delicious. So once you tried it, you loved it. So it's like, oh, I'm gonna go buy this now. Everyone drives past billboards, and you know, like, oh, I'm gonna go try that yogurt. I saw a billboard about it.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. It just goes in the back of your mind and you need to do anything about it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, forget about it. But it's like I've actually had an experience with this brand. Um every other brand's doing an ad, so do something different. But the main thing for us is like we genuinely believed our product was so good, we couldn't describe that in an ad. Yeah. And it's the same for who is Elijah. We did a lot of out-of-home activity in terms of sampling. I guess if you think of fragrance, you can't smell an ad. So for us, sampling was giving people fragrance, letting them experience it. One spray of perfume does more than 10 ads would do. Yeah. And it's also we did to have a very strong paid advertising strategy, but then doing the out-of-home activity basically closed that loop and brought it to life. Um so showing up where our customers were showing up, where our demographic was and handing out samples, we would saturate t-shirts with perfume so you like could smell it from like walking down the street, but also having like Raquel there, like the founder, the face of it. She's so bubbly and bright. Just this is my perfume try it. I made this, and like just interacting with customers just performed really well for us. And then you get the content off the back of it in that as well. So you're showing that you're doing in real life activity. And I think right now, more than ever, it's like people are craving because everyone's just using AI, everyone looks the same. Yeah. So like do something different.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. I feel like that's such a like a well thought-out way of doing things as well, especially like you said, with Chiobani with the dietitians, and then with who is Elijah bringing Raquel into it, because it's not just having anyone and everyone or the cheapest resource. I just love how carefully curated and thought out all of these components have been. And I think even just in that small little sort of explanation, I think people can take away a lot from that, which is really exciting.
SPEAKER_01That's all part of your brand. Like every touch point is your brand. Like, I've even known now recently, as I've launched my brand, as you said, I'm like a walking before my brand. I wear chrome jackets, I have a chrome bag, my business cards are mirrors. Every touch point represents what I want my brand to say. And that's the same for any brand that you do. Every touch point, everything that you put out is part of your brand. And if you do one thing that's off-brand, you just dilute the message and confuse a customer. It all needs to say the same story everywhere. That was the most important thing for us. Like at Chibani, we could have just hired promo staff that knew nothing about the product, didn't care about the product and handing it out. And the interaction is just pointless. Like you've got to invest and do it properly, people that genuinely believe and are the right demographic for you. Otherwise, it's you may as well just go to a trade show and stand there and hand out flyers.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Well, that's the thing. It's like really having that full experience and getting the experience of not just the physical product, but it's the people and the team and the knowledge and the excitement and the energy that comes with it as well.
SPEAKER_01That is actually the brand.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I also think it really gives off that that sort of, I guess, idea and like puts the energy out into the world as well that you're excited by what you're creating. And it's not just, oh, it's just another brand, or oh, it was just because it was I wanted to have a product-based business, or I wanted to have a service-based brand. It's like, no, you're really, really invested in what it is that you're doing. Because I personally feel like I especially, I mean, I've loved watching Raquel and like growing who was Elijah. And especially I loved when she went over to the States to see Sophia Ritchie and like give her the like the perfume and everything like that. And it's like being able to follow people and seeing their journey and like how the business has expanded. It's such a cool thing to get behind and support. And I think especially in Australia and New Zealand as well, we really want to back the founders behind the businesses too. And like if you've got such a good community around you, it just makes it so much better.
SPEAKER_01100%. And that's like letting people in. Yeah. Everyone loves an underdog story. Exactly. Bring people in on that journey. Like, I always say, like, I don't, I wouldn't share, like, when you're in the thick of something happening, I always share scars, not wounds. So one's just fruit on the other side. But bringing people on that journey and showing the growth, like when Raquel did go to Sophia Ritchie, like so many people asked me, like, was that fake? I'm like, no, everything about that was authentic and real. And that is exactly what happened. And she just shared that story online, didn't expect anything to happen. Next year having dinner at her house. It worked out well for her, and that content from it was amazing. And yeah, some people would have seen Sophia Ritchie's order and sent her a nice PR pack. But cool, they're getting a hundred PR packs every single day. Take it to that next level. And she got on a plane and flew over there and handed it to a security guard and then was at the airport leaving. And next minute her manager calls and is like, No, she wants you to come for dinner. Like she's seen what you've done. Like, not many people are doing that.
SPEAKER_00Wild.
SPEAKER_01Like, just give it a crack.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. When it comes to building a personal brand as well, because obviously Raquel has done a really fantastic job of building a personal brand and then obviously associating it very heavily with her business and with her products. What do you look at as like the key things that work really successfully for people building their own personal brand, whether they're wanting to get in it, they're wanting to perfect it, like what makes a really great personal brand?
SPEAKER_01I think small businesses can really benefit from having a personal brand and having the founder show up online. And so many people are obviously nervous about showing up online and letting people in on that, but it can really compound the effect of your business by having a face. People connect with humans, they don't connect with AI ads, unfortunately. Um and that's what people build trust off. So having a, you know, a founder or someone showing up, it's like, this is why I created the product, this is what it does, this is what I believe in, like sharing your values. And I think every single person, like if you had a business, I could go and copy it tomorrow. But I can't copy you. And that's the point of difference, is like even for Raquel, there's a hundred perfume brands out there. But what has made it work is that you can't copy Raquel. And she's so her point of view is different, her personality is different, what she says is different, and that's the whole point of people. Everyone's different. And you can build a personal brand by sharing your point of view and your values and what you believe in. People do get really, really scared about showing up online and are scared about showing up online because it is daunting putting yourself on the internet and recording yourself and the unknown. But there's different ways that you can do it now. Like, you know, you can look at Substack and other ways to bring people in on founder journeys. Will it have the same impact? Maybe, maybe not. We know the algorithm also supports face as opposed to just product as well. So there's so many benefits for it. But I always say, like, you know, I did a workshop this week and people were like, How do I show up online? I'm like, just be yourself. You don't need to orchestrate anything. Just be who you are. You don't go get your hair and make it done. You don't need to get all jazzed up and like write a script and be all fake. Like, no one cares about that. Don't go ask Claude to write me a script for my founder story to put online. You know your founder story. You're the one that like built this business. Share it. You don't need AI to help you with that. Just show up online and be who you are and you let it compound. But I do think businesses still need to invest in a brand strategy and now a founder strategy. And that's something that I've learned recently is like working with all these founders at the moment, is I'm writing two sets of strategies for them. The founder strategy is never to be bigger than the brand, but it's to open the front door to bring people into the brand. So I'm writing a separate strategy for businesses for their founder. And it doesn't always have to be a founder. Small businesses, yes, but it's a spokesperson of the brand. And if you look at global brands like Apple, for example, they had Steve Jobs, Tim Cook, they were the spokesperson of the brand. So it's still having a human connection and how they speak at the Apple events, like you are mesmerized and it brings you in that you're like, oh, maybe I need this new phone, it's beautiful and glass and all these things. But it's just having a spokesperson to represent the brand. Nike, they have LeBron, they have athletes that do it as well. There's different ways to have a spokesperson depending on where you're at, but it's just give it a crack. Shut up and yeah, let people in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think, like you said as well, there's no point people putting on makeup and asking ChatGPT to come up with things or Claude to come up with things for them because at the end of the day, it's not sustainable.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And it's you can't continue to be a non-authentic version of yourself and still feel comfortable to show up time and time again. Exactly. And someone's eventually gonna see through the facade.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and people just want to connect with people. Yeah. And like you're gonna be better than an AI script, like just having a general conversation where the human AR.
SPEAKER_00Is there speaking of people kind of trying to grow their brands and grow their businesses and looking at the things that like you've done with all of the different brands that you've worked with, obviously a lot of these are like the bigger scale ones. Is there anything that you've seen where, because in this day and age of going on social media, everyone is trying to copy what everybody else is doing and pulling, whether you're calling it pulling inspiration or you're literally just trying to copy. Have you seen anything that when smaller brands try to do something that a bigger brand is doing or vice versa, it just doesn't work? And then on the opposite side, have you seen something that like where people could pull inspiration that actually does really work and helps kind of catapult their business forward?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think like the larger brands, a lot of I guess a lot of small brands try and copy what the global brands are doing. And the reality of it is you don't have the scale. Global brand has, you also don't have the budget that a global brand has. So you're trying to spread yourself thing, you're trying to show up on every channel in front of everyone. And similar to what we said at the start, like you can't be everything to everyone. Um, I even have like a quote that's like written on my wall that's like not for everyone. And that's it for me as a person. Like you might hate me, like I don't care at the end of the day. Like, you can't be loved and liked by everyone, and it's the same for your business as well. Like, you're not for everyone. And I see all these small businesses that are showing up, and they're on Instagram, TikTok, TikTok, LinkedIn, Snapchat, Meta, email strategy, Substack, like they're everywhere. And it's like, bro, just chill. You don't need to be on all these platforms, but then you look at like a larger brand that can show up. They also, I find smaller brands dilute their message because they are trying to spread themselves and showing up everywhere. But a brand like Apple, they can do a shot on iPhone campaign and put it on a billboard. And we all know that's about the iPhone camera. But a smaller business that has done absolutely nothing, you can't do that. You don't have that same level of reach, you don't have that brand recognition. You need to start smaller, stay in your lane and build it up. The other side of things is one thing that I've learned from global brands is they are so disciplined. And I think that's one thing that the smaller brands aren't at the moment is discipline is everything. And how Apple works is like the discipline that we're taught is like next level. It's like the main thing, and less is more to them. You look at their ads, everything is clean, it's pristine. There's you think a white backdrop with an Apple logo, and that's our marketing. There's a creative plan, but it works. Everything is clean. You don't need to have a million messages to get it across. They just don't think different and left it at that. And it was like, what does even think different mean? But it also means so much at the same time. Like it was so clear. So I think that's probably one thing from the smaller side is like staying in your lane, being true to who you are, and not trying to show up everywhere and having a clear message. On the global brand side, one thing I see from them that they could learn from smaller businesses is without saying rude, like, but stop being so arrogant because we were arrogant in those things. It's like, oh apple, we can do this. And it's like, no, you still need to have that human touch. You still you're not too good to, you know, get on the ground and do sampling and meet with your customers and be in the right spot at the right time. I think like some global brands can lose that human touch because there's so many people involved and it does get harder, but yeah, it goes both ways, really.
SPEAKER_00And I think that that's like such an important thing to be speaking about, I think, in the time that we're in when everything is so AI, like pro AI. And it's like even the bigger brands like remembering every once in a while that you do also need to connect with your like with your customers and with the the real humans that at the end of the day actually buying your products is so important. I think so many people are getting, I don't think they're forgetting about it, but I think they're kind of getting a little bit sidetracked and thinking, oh, we just have to AIFI everything. But I really love that, yeah, just coming back to like the humans that are at the center of it all. Yeah. And I think speaking of things like billboards and all of these big campaign ideas, if a business was to look at dedicating some money to brand building, what would you say would be the most valuable places to be investing their budget? Because obviously there are things that I mean, if a business didn't have someone to hire to go out and do street sampling, you can go do it yourself. Like there's plenty of things you can DIY. But where would you say if you were talking to a brand to kind of encourage them where to put their budgets, where would be some good places to start with the investment side of things?
SPEAKER_01Starting with the I guess it depends where you're at, but defining and making sure you have a clear message and sound like a broken record, but making sure you've done your market research, invest in market research. Market research isn't free, time consuming, yes, but you can also use different services that help with your market research and pulling all your data. But I would start with just really knowing my customer, investing in there, knowing what I stand for. And if I do need to invest, it's making sure that I'm showing up where my customer is. So that could be anything from a really targeted paid ad to the exact geographical spot of my customer, or it could be a meeting. The main thing I would probably invest in is meeting where my customer is. Because you can dance around online and say how amazing you are online, but then if they go to actually convert with your brand and it's a completely different experience, yeah, it's all a lie. So what your, I guess, promises as a brand, when they're meeting your brand, that's where you need to invest in is those two parts. Everything else in the middle is a nice to have and it closes the world and keeps it all cohesive, but they're the two spots that you need to really narrow down on.
SPEAKER_00I love that. I think it's yeah, really important for people to be very considered. And I love that you keep referencing market research because I have seen so many brands over the years who just dive headfirst. I'm sure you've probably seen all the time. Even more than I have. So many that just dive headfirst. And what I guess for people to on the flip side of that, I think looking at like if you don't do your market read, what can happen to your brand? Because I think some people, like we've talked about, just tend to go, oh, it's just, it's just market research, it's no big deal. But what actually can happen to your brand if you don't do it? Like, what have you seen on your side of things if a brand hasn't done a thorough job of market research?
SPEAKER_01It happens all the time. I won't name names, but recently there's a brand that I'm working with and they have done an incredible job when they first launched, but the sales drop off. You can hype up and have an incredible launch. But if you're just in it for the quick game of a launch and that's it, see you later. Cool. But if you want a brand that has longevity, you have to have market research because otherwise you're just guessing. I'm guessing why my customer's not buying it, I'm guessing where my customer is, I'm guessing what their problem is, and I'm guessing what the solution is. You can't guess that you need to understand if you're a skincare product, what is their problem and how am I solving it? And it's not just about being like, oh, I'm 30, I have acne and this cream will help with your acne. It's like, no, give them like real life examples. I'm 30 years old, I'm walking into a boardroom meeting and I'm feeling like I'm walking into a high school, like into my high school, I'm gonna get bullied. Like you've got to give like real life scenarios of how you're solving it. So if you don't have market research to understand your consumer, how do you solve that problem? Because otherwise you're just making it up and hoping they might buy you because you look nice.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. And that's the thing, you can't rely on looks alone to be able to do that. What is, I guess, a really tactical sales move if you're wanting to do something that, or maybe something that you've even seen, it's like a brand that's done just a really tactical sales move or brand delivery move to really kind of take them from being maybe a brand that wasn't so well recognized to being a brand that people are like, oh, we've got to keep an eye on these guys because they're starting to really come up. Have you seen anything like that in your time?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I've seen that quite a bit. I guess from like a personal experience would be at Puma when I first joined them, was we were launching running into Australia. And if you bought Puma running shoes like five years ago, they were like, they were not it. Like they were not good. We can all admit it that they weren't. Whereas over the last couple of years, they really invested in running shoes, and the running shoe now is phenomenal. So it was almost like launching a small business with the global brand backing behind. But we did have the brand damage of, you know, not having good running shoes. Running, I mean, globally is a bit of a cult anyway. You know, there's run clubs and everyone has their favorite running shoes and their events, like it's a whole thing in running and trying to crack a market where everyone already has their beliefs. Like ASICs was at like when we first launched, was it like ASICs Kiano 27? That's 27 years of having that running shoe, and we're like, oh, here's our DV8 Nitro one, come buy us. You had a lot to prove. And I think for us there, we had to really build brand loyalty and we had to, yes, we had we're a global business and people knew who Puma was. We had brand recognition, we had a lot of work to do. And we would start by showing up in the right spots where it made sense. So we partnered with Ned Brockman, and at the time it was a bit of a risk because we didn't know who he was going to be. Again, comes back to personal brand. He has built a phenomenal personal brand of what he created. And he ran across the country, he storytelled, he was authentic, he was real. That first run across the country, he rotated his running shoes. So he didn't just wear Puma running shoes, he wore multiple running shoes across that time, and we weren't a brand that was like, oh, you have to wear Puma. It's like that's not realistic for what he's doing. So again, we had to let down our walls and like wear new bounds, Nike, whatever you need to wear to get the challenge done, but we're still backing you and supporting you because what you're doing is incredible. He did his huge run across the country, ran into Bondi. It was a whole moment. We then off the back of that built, you know, run clubs. Um people would meet at like 3, 4 a.m. in the morning and hundreds of people would show up. I'm pretty sure in Newcastle the police came down because there were so many people there at this run club just to meet Ned and run with Ned. And, you know, we had him talking to the Magma's running shoe that we released, and that was like the perfect shoe for him. And he would we could sit there and talk about the tech of this running shoe, about like the heel drop and the stack and the foam and all of that. Whereas Ned would be like, if you're just gonna be running like 100 K's or running distance, like you need this shoe for this, and if you're running 5Ks, you need this shoe for this. Like he just simplified it down to our customer. Um, and then he just built his running personal brand and we just authentically aligned with him. Nothing was forced, nothing was pushed. From that, our brand compounded. We then aligned with like HIROX and BFT. I think now um we've left BF, they've left BFT there with Adidas. BFT's now with Adidas, but we partnered with like gyms and high rocks as that was a trend to really, yes, put ourselves in the right place where our customer was and educate the customer on Puma running shoes and how to integrate that into HyROX. It's a very much a running event anyway. So it was just showing up at the right time and being patient, like that's now been five years of consistent spending a lot of money, but showing up where our customer is and connecting with our customer, hosting run clubs, letting them experience the brand, experience Ned, who was like the face of our brand, I guess, for running and letting him in. Um, and that's kind of how it grew. That's so cool.
SPEAKER_00And on that too, because obviously picking somebody to be the face of of your brand, if it's not the founder, obviously if it's a it's a bigger brand like Puma, or it's it's a brand where the founder maybe doesn't want to be the face of their business, it's obviously a very, it has to be a very, very aligned decision. What are some of the things that you guys took into consideration when having that partnership with Ned or for any of the brands that you've worked with? What are the kinds of things that you work through before you decide if like an influencer or somebody is the right fit to be the face or to be involved in any kind of campaign?
SPEAKER_01I guess like Ned was different because he was so unique and such a character that that was going to be a different storytelling. And we could all, when we first had that offer come through, we all sat around and like I'm pretty sure he got knocked back from like other brands at the time, but it's like there was something different about him and it was a risk that we took and it paid off. But what he was doing was also incredible. His persona was different, like he was his authentic self, and that's where the main thing is like just being who you are. But I guess if you're looking at like from an outside lens for brands working with content creators, or if you are a creator trying to work with brands or whatever that is, is from a brand side, we look at well, how I look at it. If there's two brands that we're going to collab with, is what can they bring to us that we can't achieve ourselves and similar for them as well. Like, what can we bring that they can't achieve themselves? And that was one thing with Ned is that we couldn't achieve what he achieved. We're a global brand with the restrictions and that Ned built his own community that he shared with us. We could never do what he did. And but that goes for any partnership. You're tapping into it in a way that we couldn't do, but also like what is so different that no other brand can copy again. What Ned did was so different. Anyone can put up a billboard, new running shoes. You could remove the logo and be like, what brand is it? Whereas what Ned was doing was so unique that it like it became Puma as well. Like you connected those dots. That's probably the first thing we look for. And then if it's like creators, influencers, partnerships and that as well, is we look at what their content is, if that aligns with our brand, their brand values, and how you're gonna integrate our product authentically into your life, as opposed to it just being like a one-time paid post job done. Really about like the authenticity is like a huge thing and how you connect with your audience as well. Um and like what I guess benefit is that adding to your audience as well. Because we don't want to we're not gonna give you a product that's gonna look fake for you guys as well. It has to work both ways. Yeah. Um, so they're probably the main things really. It just comes back to like just being authentic at the same time is the biggest thing. I feel like everyone tries to jump a trend and copy someone else, but all that reach I always say is rented, it's not earned. If you're jumping on a trend as a brand, like you're renting that space. And what are you gonna do with it afterwards? Like you need to know what you're gonna do. If you go viral, what's your plan? People don't have a plan. They're just like, oh, and it's understandable. Viral, you don't plan to go viral, it just kind of happens. But how do you compound that reach? Because I would rather go viral for doing something that's unique to my brand as opposed to a trend that's gone viral that I've just rented for one day.
SPEAKER_00And the metrics that you look at when you do partner with somebody, because obviously there's certain things that you'd be looking for, but aside from like all of the standard kind of looking at increasing sales and all of that kind of stuff, but what are some of the metrics that you look for when you do partner with any kind of influencers or content creators?
SPEAKER_01Small brands can get lost of looking for reach, which global brands have that reach, so it's quite different. So if you are a smaller brand, like reach is pointless because you're probably not reaching your target market. The thing I look for is how they connect with their community and who their community is because having like that impact as a you could have 500 followers and I will probably partner with you over 500,000 followers because they're probably following you for the right reason, and that's gonna have more impact than someone of large following. That I mean, prop some people have 500,000 followers and they do have a really good audience that you want to tap into. But a lot of the time there's smaller creators that do have a really engaged audience that they have built that they trust and they value what they say over a big time dog that's just we know you're getting paid to promote this product. They're probably things that we look for, and it's just like really building your community and trust like your community want to trust you. So letting them in, and that all comes back to like your personal brand strategy. And I do think content creators need their own personal brand strategy. An example is um my brother Mitch, he's a professional footballer, and he's now a content creator as well. He has like almost 900,000 on TikTok, and then he's got like 300,000 on Instagram and a couple hundred thousand on YouTube. So it's like 1.7 mil is his reach across three platforms, and he has stuck to his niche. Yeah, and that is the biggest thing. You again, you can't be everything to everyone, and his niche is football and FIFA sports, like the video game. He creates content that is so specific to that. Like I worked with him, he had L'Oreal, did a partnership with him recently. Wow. And you may ask, how does L'Oreal and a footballer work together? Especially like one that's an esports, and Mitch's audience is like that 16 to 30-year-old male, and he showed his video game 10 years ago, and that he still looks the same. Love that for him, and he still does. And that L'Oreal skincare has kept him the same through his video game to how he looks now in his mid-30s. And it was such authentic content that really connected with his audience as well. And you know, he's had brands reach out wanting to create different types of content that just doesn't work for him. And he says no, he doesn't chase the paycheck because again, it's not authentic to who he is. Yeah, if you post content that's just gonna flop, it's gonna damage your algorithm anyway. You've got to retrain it then to show this is who my audience is. Mitch is very clear who his audience is. He knows he averages 500,000 views per video minimum. Um, a lot of those videos now hit eight million a view each video because he is so tailored on his niche. He hasn't dabbled elsewhere. Could he potentially, but he just stays there. And that's like the biggest thing is like he has a personal brand strategy and we stick to that. Yeah. And I think creators have that, and you're like, you're trying to be beauty, you're trying to be fitness, you're trying to be fashion. You're not gonna grow in your category. Once you've got a huge following, yeah, you can dabble around and play in it a little bit, but for now, you've just got to lock in and pick it and stick it, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_00I feel like it's hard too for brands to figure out who to partner with if you are a little bit wishy-washy and you're kind of look doing beauty, you're doing lifestyle, you're doing here's my home reno. It's a lot harder to kind of figure out from a brand perspective, okay, well, this would be a really great aligned person.
SPEAKER_01I don't know who your audience is. Like they're following you for your home renauds, or they're following if you're makeup tips. Like it's very different and a very different audience. And I'm if I'm trying to launch a mascara, for example, and you're posting like your home rena's and at the gym, but then you're posting like get ready with me makeup video. It's really hard to see how my product authentically fits into that. Exactly. And you're building your credibility and authority in that space, knowing your niche. Like you look at um like go to skincare. That started as like a like a skincare blog as a personal brand that built into this multi-million dollar business by having a blog page that she would just share skincare tips.
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_01She stayed there. Could she have gone into makeup and hair and everything else? Absolutely. But she stayed in her niche. That's like the most important thing.
SPEAKER_00I also think too, you sort of mentioning all of that as well, has got me thinking that I feel like there's also a lot of people that don't think about the fact that all of the videos and all the content that they're creating from the early days are setting the tone and setting the precedent for like what's to come. And I think a lot of people often go into it just going, ah, well, I'll just throw it, like you said, throw shit at the wall and see what sticks.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But you actually do have to go into it with, like you said, having done your market research, having that strategy, really thinking through who do I want to be and what is the name that I want to create for myself. And that's kind of ultimately how you form a really strong brand. Is there a project that you have worked on that has been one of like your career highlights that you could share with everybody listening?
SPEAKER_01I've had a few. I think definitely working with Ned was a career highlight. He's such like an incredible person to work with. Like he's so inspiring every single day. And working with him on that as like the lead of running at Puma was amazing. I also worked on his documentary in Boston together. So we went across to Boston three years, two and a half years ago now, and stayed in Boston in January in the snow. That's so good. Just like the memories, I guess, of that and his whole team. I still like work with them today. Like I've formed like really fond friendships of them. Like that was definitely like such a career highlight and seeing the impact that he had, not only just on like the running market, but how he's changed people's lives. So you know, the homeless angle that he had as well was amazing. So that's definitely a career highlight. The other one, which is a bit random, was when I was at EA, I started commentating on esports. Oh, yeah. So working in like the live video games of FIFA, and we launched the e-league. So it was like the Australian, like it was the A-League teams playing in that. And I don't know how, but somehow I ended up commentating on it, which was really random. But it was bringing like the real world of football in game. And my brother was playing at Melbourne Victory at the time, and he was the first professional footballer to be a professional footballer and a professional esports player. So then he was playing and representing Melbourne Victory in that, and it was connecting the two worlds of real life football with the video life game. And Mitch was showing up online and he had like his professional FIFA card, and people at home were playing against him, like, Oh, it's like the real Mitch Justin that we're playing against. And then I had to like interview him and he stitched me up. Like, he just became so professional. I thought we're gonna have like banter and it'd be fun and people prep for it. And I like went to ask him a question, he gave him like one-word response, like full stitch up. I was like, let me in, like, stop being so awkward.
SPEAKER_00And he was like, Such a brother thing to do on purpose as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I had to leave the interview on like national TV with him just like giving me nothing. My goodness. But that was like awesome to see, like a getting to work with my brother's like a really unique experience to get to do in sport, but also the connecting of again that real world of football and bringing it into a product, which was FIFA Ultimate Team, um, and seeing how that came to life, and I guess like integrating it into you know the A-League, and we're doing like A-League activations at the home games and things like that with FIFA and getting people to experience it. And the thing I love about FIFA is that, like, yes, it's a video game, parents may like hate that their kid plays it, but it connects them to sport, and some people can't play sport, and it's like giving them a way to connect and play in sport and think differently. Like playing FIFA is really hard, and you have to think ahead of every play move that your footballer play is doing. And I don't know, it's like how it brings people together, and I like that's why I love sport so much. It brings different cultures, personalities, and everyone together for the same belief. Yeah, and having that happen in both marketing and I guess real world and online together was like probably like one of the funnest projects to work on.
SPEAKER_00That's so cool. And speaking on the topic of obviously things that you love, you've now left all of those career opportunities and you've moved into having to state a brand, which is your very own baby. What made you decide to kind of leave all of the projects that you've been working on and then move into having your own business?
SPEAKER_01It was really daunting to leave like a stable job and income, but I've wanted to do it for a while. I had my son, he's two and a half now. When I was on maternity leave, I kind of like looked at it and like not dabbled in it, but kind of dabbled in it a little bit. Like I was so bored on maternity leave that I needed to do something, like I'm a workaholic. And when he would sleep, I would start just doing like random websites and like audits of people because I just like needed to stimulate myself. And I really enjoyed it. And then I went to Who Was Elijah and like loved working at Who's Elijah? Like it was like the biggest whirlwind of a 12. I was only there for 12 months, but it was such a whirlwind being there. But I still like just kept thinking about that and just wanting to be able to, because I've done so much, being able to share and seeing the impact that it had by working with you know smaller businesses and other businesses. I just really enjoyed like the change of pace and every day something different. Like at the moment, I'm working with Flight Risk, love Flight Risk, the e-bikes. They're like the funnest team to work with. Like Abe's the founder, and he's just hilarious. He also owns Phone King. So working across those two businesses is really fun and different. And then on the other side of it, you know, I'll work on like Tansy, like it's a skin barrier first, fake tan, and then the other side of it's working with like a clothing brand. So it's like doing so many different things, and there's so many learnings from all these businesses that I can share with each other as well without disclosing any confidential information, but seeing like this is what's working, this is what isn't working. And that's kind of what made me do it is just like helping so many more people, but it's fun and just like being exposed to so many different businesses and what they're up to. So yeah, giving it a crack, see what happens, could go back into it, who knows? But you don't know if you don't try. A hundred percent. I just thought I'd try it, and it's been four months, and yeah, I've loved it.
SPEAKER_00That's amazing. And I think, like you said, it's so cool. And I I get the same kick out of the work that I do, being able to take all of the learnings and all the wins, and also the things that. Don't work out so well from all the different brands that you get to work with. And so it's kind of like a really fast-paced experience of like doing one kind of industry piece of work and then continuing it on for a long time. Now you get to do lots of little pieces with lots of different brands and a whole bunch of different industries.
SPEAKER_01And it's it's just really fun. It's so fun. No day's the same. Every day's different.
SPEAKER_00It keeps it fresh and exciting and interesting. Yeah, it's exhilarating. So if somebody was thinking about working on their personal brand and they've listened to this episode and they've gone, oh, I think I need to fix a few things, whether it's personal or it's business, what would your first piece of advice for them be? Like, where should somebody start and what is something that they could like realistically do within this week?
SPEAKER_01Write down what you want to be known for right now. Like if you can't write that sentence down, then you need to go and sit down and think about what that is. Um so focus on that's the first homework task is what do I want to be known for? And then once you've worked that out, then look at like who your core message is, who you're trying to target, and what you want to say to them. Also need to one thing I've realized from speaking to people and even trying to doing it myself now is that like you can say the same message a hundred times and it still won't land. You're serving it to different people. So people like, I've already shared that story. I'm like, yeah, but share it again because it's gonna be different. So share your story. Every time you say it, you're probably gonna say it a bit differently anyway, and different people will constantly see it as well. You just have to know like what do you want to be known for? If someone thinks of like your name, what do you want to be an expert in? And you have to be able to answer that question. And if you can't answer that, then that's your homework. And if you can't answer that, write it out and just that's why we do that 30-day yap challenge recently, like yap about it 30 days online every single day. Repetition and consistency.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, 100%. Well, it's like what you said, it's like with wearing your brand's colours and like representing your brand and talking about it. And every time you do talk about it, you are going to be saying it in a slightly different way. So I've even found with my sort of years of talking about the social collective as well, it's like every time I talk about it, I'm also recognizing I could also share this thing, or I could also talk about it this way, or maybe I use this word instead of that word. And it's a really nice way to perfect your pitch, essentially, being able to just practice talking to people and leaving those really good and long-lasting impressions.
SPEAKER_01Like you have to know it so well that you can literally say it in like one sentence. And if you can't get it down to one sentence, keep going until you do get it to one sentence, and that's your core message, and then everything else has pillars underneath your core message.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. And to anyone that thinks that it's not one sentence, you can absolutely get it to one sentence.
SPEAKER_01Think of like Apple, for example, like they have so much to say and they do so much, and like that from the creativity but to the environment and to the students, they do everything, but they just say think different, and everything else says it they have pillars underneath it. I mean, and that goes for like both brands, businesses, individuals, content creators, athletes, everything. Just have one clear message, and then everything else is a pillar under that one clear message.
SPEAKER_00I love that, just keep it so insanely simple, don't overcomplicate it.
SPEAKER_01Like mine is I build brands people obsess over, and that's how I do it. I love that. And from there, I can then go into the pillars of what I want to do underneath it. But that's like my one sentence, and then I leave it at that.
SPEAKER_00I love that. And speaking of that being your brand messaging, and that's how you talk to people, how can people find you and what have you got going on at the moment?
SPEAKER_01I really butchered myself when I launched my business because I work at a million miles an hour and it's called State of Brand. My website is States of Brand. Yeah. State of brand wasn't available, so I'm like, let's go with states. My email address is hello at states of brand, which is like states again. And then my Instagram is at stateofbrand.co. And I'm not really consistent, I'm not really speaking the whole brand message, but what was available at the time, and I just very much like I go 100 miles an hour and want to get something done that day. I just do it. I'm like, you know what, fuck it. It is what it is. And I just looked into that. That's kind of that piece. And then I guess what I'm working on at the moment is so many things I'm really enjoying as well, building my own personal brand because I've always been the person behind the camera and setting everything up, and now just like so uncomfortable doing like even like podcasts and sharing knowledge and showing up online and videoing myself. Like I feel like the biggest wanker, but at the same time, like I'm telling everyone else to do it. So, like, because you preach and it's worked really well. So I'm enjoying that side of it and just meeting people along the way. And then in terms of projects, I'm working on a really exciting one at the moment with the Flight Risk Eyes and some big branding moments coming up for them soon. So keep your eyes on their platforms. But um, yeah, that's probably one of the fun ones that we're working on at the moment. Such they're only a two-year-old brand, people that have been around forever, but that whole e-bike category is like hot right now. Laws, regulations, yeah, please seizing bikes, but it's like comes down to the user. Um, so yeah, it's been fun working in that space, completely different, but I love it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing an insane amount of knowledge. I feel like to anyone that is listening to this episode, they're gonna be able to take away so much for both their personal brand and also their business brand and just how to do it better, how to build it smarter, and how to do it and have fun at the same time. So thank you so much for joining me on this episode of the Coffees and Content Podcast. And I'm looking forward to, I guess, while we're recording this episode tomorrow, I get to listen to one of your masterclasses at the social summit, which I am so excited for. But thank you so much for joining us and yeah, I really appreciate your time.
SPEAKER_01No, thank you. It's been fun.
SPEAKER_00Amazing. Well, I'll catch you guys all next week. Same time, same place, and I will see you soon. Bye.
